Is June Mtn missing an opportunity with families?

[SkiSox]

Times are tough. Budgets are tight. For young families, that second statement us often true even in good times.

As a parent of two young kids and an avid skier myself, I had been looking for a cost-effective big mountain option for weekend skiing in the three years since I moved from NYC. The local hills near LA can be fun in the right circumstances, but most here are familiar with their drawbacks for serious skiers. While I would love to hit Mammoth 2 weekends/month from Thanksgiving until Easter, I've come to realize that the price point just doesn't make sense for your average weekender from LA. To wit:

Gas: $200 ($100 each way)
Adult lift tickets: $360 (tickets for my wife and I for both Saturday and Sunday)
Ski school: $200 (two days of lessons for my oldest)
Day care: $200 (two days of babysitting for my youngest)

I'm already $1000 in, and I don't even have a place to stay yet. As a practical matter, I'm looking at ~$1500 all in. That's unsustainable for your average 10-20 day/year skier.

So it was with no small amount of ancitipation that I visited June last winter. From an outside-in perspective, it seemed to have many of the attributes you'd look for in a great family hill:

- No crowds
- Great snow
- A single base area for everyone to come back to
- Big mountain feel with a good terrain mix for grown ups and little kids
- Lodging and lift tickets priced at ~30% off the going rate 20 minutes down the road
- No scene - just skiing, nice people, and a bevy of outdoor, off-hill activities

While those attributes certainly do exist, it seems that June is really leaving an opportunity on the table but for want of a few modest enhancements/changes.

1) J-1: I have no problem with old, slow doubles (my roots are from Mad River Glen back east and I appreciate the snow preservation) but, since it's unlikely to be replaced for some time, why not add a safety bar? That chair goes a long way over some pretty steep terrain. It can be intimidating on the up, let alone the down, especially for little kids. It seems that, for a minimal price tag, you could provide young kids and their parents with a lot more piece of mind.

2) Lift Progression: The lift options for aspiring young ski school attendees don't seem designed to promote an optimal skills progression. You've got the tiny magic carpet serving 10 feet of flat vertical and then the next step up is the J2. How does that make sense? There's a lot of space at the confluence of the J2 and J6 - is there no room for a small, cheap tow/poma/conveyance that provides something of a next step up from the magic carpet?

3) J3: This should be, IMO, an ideal lift for young learners. It's short enough that kids won't get tired on it, but long enough to really work on your basic skills. The liftline has an ideal pitch while also getting a lot of warm sun with its high-altitude, southerly exposure. Because it's up high on the mountain, kids really get to experience the wonderment of that alpine environment and the stunning views that are June's trademark. Lastly, it has Stew Pot Slim's right at the base for a quick bite, warm up and/or pee break.

But the J3 is a center pole style double, making it pretty difficult to help your young kids into the seat next to you. My kid almost fell off more than once, despite doing everything in my power to keep her situated (I've been skiing for 35 years, so this shouldn't be a challenge). At least the day I was there, this was in some respects exacerbated by lifties seemed indifferent to my plight. There's probably nothing they can do here short of replacing the lift, and that's pretty expensive even if you buy one used. In short, I'm not holding my breathe on this one.

4) Lower ticket office: Just getting kids to the mtn on time can be a challenge. It isn't any easier when there is no base facility to speak of where everyone can boot up and, if appropriate, store their bags/stuff. Base lodges are expensive, and June's skier visits obviously can't support a major expansion/replacement of that structure. But how difficult would it be to add a small nook for booting up with some lockers on the wall?

5) No day care on-site: A guy can dream, can't he?

Fundamentally, June remains a good deal for the money. That said, as the Suxy pictures here readily attest, the word hasn't exactly gotten out yet. This is a shame, b/c the positive attributes laid out above are real and meaningful for young families. The economy is stalled and skiing is an expensive sport to begin with. Why not learn some lessons from similar dual mountain resorts back East like Sugarbush (Lincoln Peak and the traditionally neglected Mt. Ellen 10 minutes up the road) or Pico (15 minutes from its parent Killington)? Sugarbush instituted specially discounted pass pricing and made a concerted effort to attract/market towards families on a budget. They added a tow as a stepping stone to their double chair for the dedicated beginner area. Finally, they added some on-map glades for most abilities. Obviously, this last item wasn't meant for really young kids, but it certainly added a buzz about Ellen for relatively short money. As a result of these actions, skier visits at Mt. Ellen increased dramatically. Whereas the mtn used to be known locally as "Club North" (Mt. Ellen was called Sugarbush North for the first 25 years after its merger with the original Sugarbush) due to the complete lack of crowds, lines now get skied out in a morning rather than 3 days. The creative pricing and modest but high profile/high impact investments have enabled people to wake up and realize that there's an affordable hill offering 2600' of varied terrain, with empty quad chairs blanketed by 260" of snowfall right up the road from the big brother. Sound familiar?

I am convinced that implementing a few of these changes, and making a concerted effort to position itself in the LA and local markets (Lee Vining, Bridgeport) as THE budget family destination for SoCal, would be an idea worthy of serious consideration. Where is that need/niche being filled in this area?

Are these observations valid in your experience? Does the opportunity justify investing in (or at least considering) solutions to any/some/all of the shortcomings described above? Help me help you, June Mtn. Otherwise, I'm forced to slum it at Mtn High b/c they've got a reasonably good set-up for teaching young kids for 1/3 of the cost. Please don't make me do that. I don't want my kids to grow up in a world where they think that Wrightwood is the model ski town.

[maxpower88]

Leave June alone, pay or don't play...

[onegoodturn]

You can check #1 off your list SS. They did add safety bars to the J1 chairs this summer. I'm not sure if they are on all the chairs though but they have them on the majority.

[Biker395]

Actually, I appreciate the thoughtful analysis.

1. The biggest negative is way too low on your list ... the lack of day care. June used to have daycare (it was down in that building at the base ... which also used to be a bar, come to think of it). The problem was ... they didn't have enough patrons to make it work. Almost every time our kids were there, they were the ONLY kids there. Gawd, was that place quiet. I think licensed day care is available elsewhere in June Lake, though.

2. A J1 safety bar would be a good idea. When my kids were little, I used my pole as a safety bar ... crossing in front of their lap and hooking it on the outside of the chair. And if you can't ride up with your kid, you can ask someone else to ride up with them and watch them. That's kinda part of the charm of June ... lots of people would be more than willing to do so.

3. Not really warm to the objections to J3. I think it's fine the way it is.

4. Lift progression. Not sure why you object here. J6 services Silverado ... a nice long run with a few steeper sections. Great views and a great beginning run. Ditto J2 ... it services some great runs for beginners.

5. Lower ticket office: Yea, it might make sense to have a small area for putting boots on. I don't think it will get used much, though, since parking is so close to the base. Ditto the lockers ... Since parking is so close, I think most people would just opt to store what they need in the car. If they want it more handy for lunch, they use the lockers at the Chalet.

I dunno ... I think JL is about the ideal place for families with children just the way it is. Mountain High ... well ... not so much. The lift tickets at June are very competitively priced, and some of the other differences you posit are not something June can do anything about (gas, lodging, for example).

[onegoodturn]

Biker, they did add safety bars to J1 this summer.

Do I hear an echo???

[Biker395]

Biker, they did add safety bars to J1 this summer.

Do I hear an echo???

LOL ... I guess you answered while I was typing. I only go 20 wpm ya know.

[mspamelablythe]

Did someone say something about safety bars?? What a great enhancement that would be....

[longlivechair19]

Biker, they did add safety bars to J1 this summer.

Do I hear an echo???

wow, a safety bar on a center pole, interesting....pics?

[onegoodturn]

I don't have a pic, maybe SL might. They bolt to the center pole and fold up next to it when not in use.

[Biker395]

Are there cupholders on the safety bar?

[SkiSox]

Actually, I appreciate the thoughtful analysis.

1. The biggest negative is way too low on your list ... the lack of day care. June used to have daycare (it was down in that building at the base ... which also used to be a bar, come to think of it). The problem was ... they didn't have enough patrons to make it work. Almost every time our kids were there, they were the ONLY kids there. Gawd, was that place quiet. I think licensed day care is available elsewhere in June Lake, though.

Not surprising. I think this is something that can only be solved in the context of a comprehensive effort to market to families. I've seen no such effort here in LA and I'm a reasonably well informed skiing consumer. You can't offer something like that and not market it widely. If reasonably priced on-site day care were marketed in the context of an overall family strategy, i'd be surprised if there wasn't additional traffic over time.

2. A J1 safety bar would be a good idea. When my kids were little, I used my pole as a safety bar ... crossing in front of their lap and hooking it on the outside of the chair. And if you can't ride up with your kid, you can ask someone else to ride up with them and watch them. That's kinda part of the charm of June ... lots of people would be more than willing to do so.

Great to hear this has been implemented.

3. Not really warm to the objections to J3. I think it's fine the way it is.

I found that lift really difficult to easily navigate on and off with a little one. Sounds like YMMV.

4. Lift progression. Not sure why you object here. J6 services Silverado ... a nice long run with a few steeper sections. Great views and a great beginning run. Ditto J2 ... it services some great runs for beginners.

no doubt the J6 is a great lift with a nice mix of terrain for beginners and intermediates. That said, 3-5 year old legs may have trouble on runs that long. Maybe it was just my experience with a 3 year old, but I didn't find the J2 to be much better. J3 was perfect in terms of length and pitch as a next step up from the magic carpet, except for the lift itself.

5. Lower ticket office: Yea, it might make sense to have a small area for putting boots on. I don't think it will get used much, though, since parking is so close to the base. Ditto the lockers ... Since parking is so close, I think most people would just opt to store what they need in the car. If they want it more handy for lunch, they use the lockers at the Chalet.

Definitely a fair point re: storage. As for booting up and a quick warm treat/drink, that's a lot easier to do inside with kids than outside. From an adult perspective, it's pretty much irrelevant, but for kids that stuff makes a big difference.

I dunno ... I think JL is about the ideal place for families with children just the way it is. Mountain High ... well ... not so much. The lift tickets at June are very competitively priced, and some of the other differences you posit are not something June can do anything about (gas, lodging, for example).

As I mentioned, it's got great attributes for that market but it seems to me missing a few small items that would cost short money while making a significant difference to that demographic (both perceived and real). As for Mtn High, I'd disagree strongly.

Don't need to buy lodging
There are 2-3 base lodge/food/bathroom facilities right at the bottom of the lifts
Pretty much dedicated beginner area at West with lifts of varying lengths/challenge

Yeah it can be a zoo on weekends but the beginner area generally remains quiet, and it's 90 minutes away vs. 5 hrs. I'd much prefer to go to June due to terrian for grown ups and the ability to get away from LA, but the value proposition just isn't quite there yet due to the reasons discussed above.

[Sierra Lady]

wow, a safety bar on a center pole, interesting....pics?

The two times I took a J1 scenic ride this summer I didn't think to take a close-up pix of the new safety bars. If someone knows how to zoom in on the uphill chair in this shot, you may be able to see the bar. It is mounted on the center pole and both sides come down at the same time when you pull on them and they rest near your lap.

[Photoho]

email me the largest file you have. Zooming in on a puney 700px photo won't show any detail. I will zoom the high rez and re post for you.

[onegoodturn]

You're high rez

[teledork]

Are there cupholders on the safety bar?

Yes, there are. The Mayor requested them for his Fat Tire on the down - load.