Rossignol shoddy manufacturing hur my back.

[DemonDuck]

I sent the following email to service and support at Rossignol. They have not responded yet.

Hi,

I bought some Rossignol X8 skate boots 2011/2012 a while ago from this seller

http://myworld.ebay.com/cb7365?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110977810833?ss ... 1439.l2649

I've not been doing a lot of cross country for various reasons. Yesterday, Thursday, Jan. 3, 2012, I was at our local XC track here in Mammoth Lakes, CA. I hit a little icy spot that had a slight downhill right bank across the track. To keep from sliding sideways to the right, I steped hard on the inside edge of my right ski. I twisted out of my right binding and fell really hard. I was stunned to say the least. A trip to the E.R. showed that I had not broken anything. Just a bad fall that put my back into spasm.

I looked at my boots and bindings today. I have Rossignol NNN T3 bindings on some Karhu 55mm metal edge waxless BC skis. I don't BC. I just cruse the tracks. The skis are nice and stable and comfortable.

It turns out that the right boot has a little lip on the front plastic where the toe bar is that prevents the boot from locking completely into the binding. On my work bench, I can twist the boot out of the binding with my hands because that lip keeps the boot out of proper position. The lip is maybe one millimeter, maybe one an a half millimeters. It's clearly a manufacturing flaw. That's just enough to let the boot stay in the binding in most cases if the track stays flat. The left boot seats in the binding properly. Yesterday, I just happened to put just enough torque on the binding to twist out. I'm really hurting today. My butt and back are in spasm.

Everyday I spend laid up -- needing pain pills to sleep, I get more and more angry about this. It was completely unnecessary and caused by shoddy manufacturing. I am considering getting some legal help about this. My back hurts today because Rossignol screwed up. That's not right. This incident is well documented at the Yurt at Twin Lakes -- they did an accident report and helped me to my car -- and our local E.R. where I spent 3 hours.

I thought you should know. What should I do?

[CalvaryMike]

Warranty/Customer service issues. This is one reason I stay away from ebay for certain items. I had problems with some new Rossi bindings upon arrival. They were new in the box, but there were issues with them. The ebay seller wouldn't cooperate until I had his account locked. In the meantime, Rossi wouldn't do anything to help. I finally was able to get the seller to send me new bindings. What a pain it was and this was with brand new bindings that I never even mounted.

[SurfnSnowboard]

As soon as you start talking legal action they won't respond.

[snowfiend]

I would think Rossignol would be on the hook unless the product was a fake. Even if you buy something used it should still be covered by the original warranty if it's within the time frame.

But I have heard of companies not wanting to back their products and this might be the case. I had a problem with a marker binding being bad design. They RMA'd the unit the design wasn't fixed. Berg Ski shop(online after 8 months) took it back and gave me a full refund.

As for you pain that sucks but maybe you should have noticed that your binding was locked before going out. It's always a good idea to check your gear every time before you use it.

[DemonDuck]

I would think Rossignol would be on the hook unless the product was a fake. Even if you buy something used it should still be covered by the original warranty if it's within the time frame.

But I have heard of companies not wanting to back their products and this might be the case. I had a problem with a marker binding being bad design. They RMA'd the unit the design wasn't fixed. Berg Ski shop(online after 8 months) took it back and gave me a full refund.

As for you pain that sucks but maybe you should have noticed that your binding was locked before going out. It's always a good idea to check your gear every time before you use it.

The boot was locked into the binding as well as it could be. That's the problem. Read my posting. There is a defect in the boot that prevents a full and complete lock.

Further, it shouldn't matter where I got the boot. It's a standard sole and a standard binding. All NNN boots are supposed to be in spec. It was out of spec. That's what made the boot come out of the binding. Read my post again. There is no standard release test for the NNN binding / boot spec. It's just supposed to work.

If I'd bought the boot at MMSA or KITTREDGE or REI. the same sequence of events would have happened. The boot stays locked into the binding until there is a little torque on the boot, then iit comes out unexpectedly.

[skibuddy2]

If I'd bought the boot at MMSA or KITTREDGE or REI. the same sequence of events would have happened. The boot stays locked into the binding until there is a little torque on the boot, then iit comes out unexpectedly.

Yea if you bought it there the store would have done something for ya.

Stop whining and get a life.

[PerfectZero]

I had a binding rip out of my volkls once (right after hangers lol) but I was nice about it and snagged a free pair of the next seasons gotamas out of it.

[DemonDuck]

I posted here in an attempt to get the attention of Rossignol's support, They had been stonewalling me for over a week. Posting here to get Rossignol's attention worked. Within hours of my post here, Rossignol support contacted me and I've been working with them to figure out what to do next.

I've two pairs of XC skis. The Karhu's with a Rossignol auto NNN and a Rossignol Xynex with Rottefella manual NNN. The Rottefella manual NNN binding works with both boots. The Rossignol auto simply won't hold the right boot. The Left boot is held by the auto NNN on both Karhu skis. There must be some difference in the geometry of the right boot's toe that is causeing the problem. I thought I had it figured out but it looks like I don't.

Thank you all for your help and kind words. More later.

[skiserf]

are release tests performed on XC gear or is that just for downhill ? If there was a test, would that have caught the problem ?

[DemonDuck]

are release tests performed on XC gear or is that just for downhill ? If there was a test, would that have caught the problem ?

That's an excellent question. As far as I know, there is no release test for NNN XC bindings. There are no weight adjustment springs to set like an Alpine binding. They are supposed to be on or off. There's two kinds of NNN bindings: auto and manual. The auto is just a step in. There's a bar on the toe of the boot that fits into the binding and there is a non-adjustable, spring loaded, mechanism that holds the bar (and the boot) in place.

For some reason, my right boot is not held in place securely in my auto bindings. I push it in. It feels like it's in but I can twist it out with my hands without very much effort. That's what happened to me. I used them about 5 or 6 times all in good conditions on flat tracks. My accident happened when I traversed an icy spot and I had to stand on my inside edge with my right ski. That caused enough torque to twist out and I fell. It shouldn't have happened.

I have another set of XC skis with manual bindings and they do hold the boot in securely. The area and the mechanism on the auto are a differnent shape than the manual.

If there was a release check, it certainly would have discovered my problem immediately.

But, for example, at Twin Lakes XC track, you just rent skis and boots, put the boot on and carry the skis outside and step in -- they use NNN auto bindings like mine. -- and the boot is expected to stay in the binding without checking to see if there is a potential for pre-release. That's assuming you've cleared the snow off the toe of your boot and stepped into the binding properly.

I found my problem on my work bench. No snow -- boot properly placed. I've looked and looked at the boot and I can't see anything that could cause this problem except a small lip on the front ot the right boot. I need to try my boots in other NNN auto bindings and see if it happens in all NNN bindings or just mine.

At this point, I'm just not sure what's going on. I thought I did but now I don't.

[snowfiend]

The boot was locked into the binding as well as it could be. That's the problem. Read my posting. There is a defect in the boot that prevents a full and complete lock.

Further, it shouldn't matter where I got the boot. It's a standard sole and a standard binding. All NNN boots are supposed to be in spec. It was out of spec. That's what made the boot come out of the binding. Read my post again. There is no standard release test for the NNN binding / boot spec. It's just supposed to work.

If I'd bought the boot at MMSA or KITTREDGE or REI. the same sequence of events would have happened. The boot stays locked into the binding until there is a little torque on the boot, then iit comes out unexpectedly.

I know what your saying.. But if the boot doesn't look right then don't use it. I had a pair of Marker Jester Schizo Ski Bindings and the cable that allows the binding to move would pop out (on daves run). Due to a design flaw that has yet to be fixed. Marker was nice to give me a new pair so I could return them. From that I have learned to really watch my gear. But I had to buy another pair of bindings for $300 because I didn't trust them anymore and wait 3 months to get my money returned. I feel lucky to get my 6 month old purchase returned also.. I doudt if MMSA or Kittredge would have taken them back.

[DemonDuck]

The boot was locked into the binding as well as it could be. That's the problem. Read my posting. There is a defect in the boot that prevents a full and complete lock.

Further, it shouldn't matter where I got the boot. It's a standard sole and a standard binding. All NNN boots are supposed to be in spec. It was out of spec. That's what made the boot come out of the binding. Read my post again. There is no standard release test for the NNN binding / boot spec. It's just supposed to work.

If I'd bought the boot at MMSA or KITTREDGE or REI. the same sequence of events would have happened. The boot stays locked into the binding until there is a little torque on the boot, then iit comes out unexpectedly.

I know what your saying.. But if the boot doesn't look right then don't use it. I had a pair of Marker Jester Schizo Ski Bindings and the cable that allows the binding to move would pop out (on daves run). Due to a design flaw that has yet to be fixed. Marker was nice to give me a new pair so I could return them. From that I have learned to really watch my gear. But I had to buy another pair of bindings for $300 because I didn't trust them anymore and wait 3 months to get my money returned. I feel lucky to get my 6 month old purchase returned also.. I doudt if MMSA or Kittredge would have taken them back.

I was once a professional binding mechanic for the Mountain and Kittredges -- a long time ago. I know the imortance of paying attention to your equipment. I've looked and looked at my boots and put the skis and boots on my workbench. The flaw in the boot -- if there is one -- is very subtle. As soon as I can walk better, I'm going to the Yurt at Twin Lakes and try the boot in their bindings to see if the same pre-release problem shows in other bindings. It could be just my bindings are at fault. I'm trying to keep an open mind.

When I first discovered that I could twist the boot out of my binding with my hands -- which should be impossible -- I immediately thought it was a problem with the right boot because the left boot is secure in the bindings of both skies. That's when I wrote Rossignol. And I started to get worried when they didn't reply. They are at least communicating with me now. But I still don't know how this is going to shake out.

It doesn't seem fair to ask the guy I bought them from to take a hit. He sold a Rossignol product with good faith in Rossignol. So I need to communicate with Rossignol directly.

This whole thing shouldn't have happened. NNN bindings and boots are a standard that should be fool proof. That's why I used my boots with blind faith that they would work. Doesn't seem right that each boot would have to be inspected and tested in bindings for pre-release before use but maybe that's what should happen.

The local Rossignol dealers should be cognizant of what happened to me and thnk about every boot they sell.

[snowfiend]

I believe the vendor that sold the product to you also should be helping. They should atleast pay for shipping to return the item and help make the deal good. This is the same problem I have with wave rave. They sold me a $350 Burton jacket and after 2 dasy of using it the front zipper broke not allowing the jacket to zip up. They refused to help me and said to deal direct with Burton.. Burton was good and took care of the product. So if that is the case I found it best to buy online unless the store is willing to go the extra mile to keep the customer.
Sorry for you issues. It really sucks to spend good money and get shoddy manufacturing..

[DemonDuck]

I believe the vendor that sold the product to you also should be helping. They should atleast pay for shipping to return the item and help make the deal good. This is the same problem I have with wave rave. They sold me a $350 Burton jacket and after 2 dasy of using it the front zipper broke not allowing the jacket to zip up. They refused to help me and said to deal direct with Burton.. Burton was good and took care of the product. So if that is the case I found it best to buy online unless the store is willing to go the extra mile to keep the customer.
Sorry for you issues. It really sucks to spend good money and get shoddy manufacturing..

Buying anything anywhere these days is difficult. At least Rossignol is taking the time to talk me through this problem. And I couldn't have bought this boot locally anyway.

[skiserf]

I know what your saying.. But if the boot doesn't look right then don't use it. I had a pair of Marker Jester Schizo Ski Bindings and the cable that allows the binding to move would pop out (on daves run). Due to a design flaw that has yet to be fixed. Marker was nice to give me a new pair so I could return them. From that I have learned to really watch my gear. But I had to buy another pair of bindings for $300 because I didn't trust them anymore and wait 3 months to get my money returned. I feel lucky to get my 6 month old purchase returned also.. I doudt if MMSA or Kittredge would have taken them back.

Not sure about that, I had the cap on a pair of Head skis delaminate after using them pretty hard for a season. Took em back to footloose and they lent me a pair of demos for my last day and said that they would contact the manufacturer. A week later, I got a call from them letting me know that they were crediting me back the entire purchase amount. Ever since then, I will always go back to them for gear.

good customer service = my $$.

Cheers