Backcountry ski thread

[Piggity]

Im in no way criticizing here, just providing an alternate point of view. If I rode BC without a beacon, I would be thinking of myself buried as the lesser of the concerns because it was my decision.

I would be more afraid of all 4 of my friends being buried, while I was completely helpless standing directly over them as they slowly suffocated. The guilt alone would be bad but then having to face their family would be impossible. At least if I gave it a fair shot to save their lives with my gear then I could eventually find some sort of peace that I gave my best effort.

[JohnLemieux]

I would be more afraid of all 4 of my friends being buried, while I was completely helpless standing directly over them as they slowly suffocated. The guilt alone would be bad but then having to face their family would be impossible. At least if I gave it a fair shot to save their lives with my gear then I could eventually find some sort of peace that I gave my best effort.

I see where you're coming from, but they knew I didn't have a transceiver and we're planning to go with or without me. 3 of the 5 of us had transceivers, so unless we were caught in a multiple burial situation (rare), someone on the surface would have a transceiver.

I'm shopping transceivers as we speak and might buy one tonight.

[Piggity]

Good stuff man.

S1 on backcountry for $275, solid deal considering their return policy.
http://www.backcountry.com/ortovox-s1-avalanche-scanner-transceiver-ort0109?CMP_SKU=ORT0109&MER=0406&CMP_ID=SH_FRO001&mv_pc=r126&003=7162907&010=ORT0109-ONECOL-ONESIZ&mr:trackingCode=DF823FB1-1F5E-E111-B4E0-001B21A69EB8&mr:referralID=NA

[doconboards]

I think I see where all the angst is coming from. I think many are making the assumption that all people going out into the backcountry without proper gear are making an uninformed decision. Granted probably the majority of people who do are. I was at Canyons earlier this year the same week that snowboarder got buried and died on Dutch's Draw, and I saw plenty of people going out the gate completely oblivious to the danger and just following the guy in front of them like lemmings, past the skull and crossbones on the gate, who had probably never read the avalanche report for the day, let alone had the right gear.

However, there are probably a few who, whether right or wrong, read the weather report, read the ESAC report for the day, maybe even checked the snow pit data and other reports from people who have been out in the area recently, and then ventured out - perhaps without beacons or other gear. That is their decision to make.

As a physician, I believe in seat belt laws, helmet laws, even the President's decision to mandate health insurance, but even I draw the line somewhere. The backcountry if freedom! Right or wrong, smart or stupid - it's there for everyone.

There was an interesting article in an issue of Backcountry magazine last year. It was a poll that asked how many people had been out in the backcountry solo. Nearly half of the staff and editors of the magazine (who one would assume would be experienced backcountry skiers) answered in the affirmative if I remember correctly. One of the SMC guides I was out last year with told me of an old school backcountry guy who he sees going up Punta Bardini solo all the time. At first I was surprised, but then I thought, well, on a spring day with low danger avi forecast on low angle terrain, I supposed I might make a similar decision. Just like free solo climbing, it's not for everyone, but i could see how someone might make that decision; it's not my right to take that decision away from them. Not much different than going out without a beacon I suppose.

[Jbaysurfer]

If you go solo WITH a beacon/shovel/probe, you can still help in a rescue situation of other skier/riders, or they can help you if they are in the area and you go down in a slide. Without it, they can't help you, but WORSE, you can't help anyone else. One of those outcome leaves you with a life of regret. This isn't N. Korea, so no one can mandate it, but that doesn't mean your decisions don't affect other people, even strangers.

Also, going out solo on a spring day with predictable temps in non avalanche terrain, a normal sierra snowpack, with proper gear; and going out without proper gear in an extremely dangerous snowpack with a group is not equivalent, unless you ignore all the information that actually matters.

I wasn't going to chime in on this conversation, because JohnL made a common mistake, and he's hearing about it now from people who care. But I'd like to point out, that the people who posted here...CARE, even if their delivery may not come across that way. Tough love is still love. Like it or not, backcountry skiing/snowboarding has a longstanding culture of looking out for our own, and that's what's happening here, not an attempt to surpress anybody's personal freedoms.

[Rotten]

This isn't N. Korea, so no one can mandate it

Hmmm... No smoking laws, helmet laws, healthcare mandate, seatbelt laws, low flush toilet laws, just to name a few. Does a beacon law seem to be that out of the question?

[Jbaysurfer]

This isn't N. Korea, so no one can mandate it

Hmmm... No smoking laws, helmet laws, healthcare mandate, seatbelt laws, low flush toilet laws, just to name a few. Does a beacon law seem to be that out of the question?

Seriously? That's all you got out of my post?

[Rotten]

Seriously? That's all you got out of my post?

Of course not. I agree that going in the backcountry without proper equipment is wrong on so many levels. I was just commenting on one aspect. That's all. No flames here.

[Skeeze]

Regarding airbags, I think the data now clearly shows that they are more effective at saving YOU than a beacon. Although they are less effective here than in Europe since there are more trees to cause trauma. And they don't have to be that expensive. I got the cheap one (BCA Float 30) for under $400 last year from mammoth mountaineering. Then again, you still need a transceiver for those few cases where you are buried with an airbag. And as others have pointed out, the real key is that you can help out with someone else's burial.

I think an airbag can now be considered essential for people who truly care about safety in avalanche terrain. It's new and expensive so people will resist buying (especially those who haves lot of experience in the BC), but the data is clear.

[Jbaysurfer]

Seriously? That's all you got out of my post?

Of course not. I agree that going in the backcountry without proper equipment is wrong on so many levels. I was just commenting on one aspect. That's all. No flames here.

Right on. Sorry for misunderstanding.

[Hutash]

If you go solo WITH a beacon/shovel/probe, you can still help in a rescue situation of other skier/riders, or they can help you if they are in the area and you go down in a slide. Without it, they can't help you, but WORSE, you can't help anyone else. One of those outcome leaves you with a life of regret. This isn't N. Korea, so no one can mandate it, but that doesn't mean your decisions don't affect other people, even strangers.

Also, going out solo on a spring day with predictable temps in non avalanche terrain, a normal sierra snowpack, with proper gear; and going out without proper gear in an extremely dangerous snowpack with a group is not equivalent, unless you ignore all the information that actually matters.

I wasn't going to chime in on this conversation, because JohnL made a common mistake, and he's hearing about it now from people who care. But I'd like to point out, that the people who posted here...CARE, even if their delivery may not come across that way. Tough love is still love. Like it or not, backcountry skiing/snowboarding has a longstanding culture of looking out for our own, and that's what's happening here, not an attempt to surpress anybody's personal freedoms.

This

I am not a super experience BC skier, but I have been around long enough to see too many people make poor choices, which is fine, we learn from experience (if we live), but it is when they start to defend and rationalize those poor decisions that gets my dander up. I have done stupid things and have been called on them, and I have learned from people more knowledgeable then myself. Hopefully we all will continue to learn.

All in all the response here have been very mild. Try posting this at TGR and see what sh*t storm it creates.

[mirrorball]

This thread is a prime example of why it would be a shame if the forums are "closing up shop".

I post infrequently, but lurk compulsively (and know more about BC than I ever would otherwise)...

[Hutash]

I would be more afraid of all 4 of my friends being buried, while I was completely helpless standing directly over them as they slowly suffocated. The guilt alone would be bad but then having to face their family would be impossible. At least if I gave it a fair shot to save their lives with my gear then I could eventually find some sort of peace that I gave my best effort.

I see where you're coming from, but they knew I didn't have a transceiver and we're planning to go with or without me. 3 of the 5 of us had transceivers, so unless we were caught in a multiple burial situation (rare), someone on the surface would have a transceiver.

I'm shopping transceivers as we speak and might buy one tonight.

Look here as well. An S1 can be had for $243.72 http://www.sierratradingpost.com/ortovo ... rFamily=01

You will need a discount code and might have to call (If you have questions, please call 1-800-713-4534 and please mention keycode FCW20887.) since it is not showing up on the website, but I know others have bought it with the 35% off code. They also have probes (but I didn't look at was they were selling.)
Just a FYI...stay safe out there

[maxpower88]

And now back to our regularly scheduled programming...

After a thorough whistle and two-way radio drill, Highanxiety and I set out to hit Cinder Cone Bowl (aka-Red Cone) but deteriorating weather conditions forced us up the Sherwin Ridge and down the main Avy path. In a 4 hour tour we hit pretty much every condition - snow, wind, fog, a solid ice drop in, creamy mank, and actual powder.



Back in the SKINNER!


Hole in da wall looking sketch


The front was moving in fast.


We hunkered down here for 45 min and waited out the front.


1 hour later-BLUEBIRD bitches


Da hose.






Nasty cornice








We out...

[sdmarkus]

After a thorough whistle and two-way radio drill

Classic ... glad you two are still getting after it. I split town as soon as it started warming up...