MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby snowfiend » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:03 pm

JohnLemieux wrote:
CalvaryMike wrote:
JohnLemieux wrote:I doubt it would be higher than a ski area or downhill MTB park.

I completely agree with you, but this would be an additional policy or an amendment to the existing policy. Additional cost to the cost of building it.


My guess is that these things are about a million times safer than everything else mammoth already does, so I would call BS if insurance premiums were a reason to not have them. You're on a solid track in a seatbelt.

It has to be safer then the zip line or bobsled.
Just make sure it's on tracks NOT like this one in Durango Colorado http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGH5_l8Q7BE
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby gowithapro2009 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:59 pm

I have always thought a water park.theme park would be a good year round attraction. I guess coprs have years where they build and years where they hire. It is hard to figure how they, any corp, figures out who to lay off, but it doesn't matter. I was saddened to hear my ski school director at Canyon was let go. She exemplified someone who could leverage egos and business. Not the ski instructors have any egos ;)

So sad for people who have made this a huge part of their lives, on top of the H2B visa dissappointment, the economy, there are hurt feelings all around. I have a great friend in Washington named Willy. He never sweats stuff, he says "better times on down the road." I know he is right.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby Jbaysurfer » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:52 pm

Photoho wrote:Its like a 24/7 survey. A barometer, a thermometer, a litmus test, a focus group, a think tank, a double blind drunk test


YOU'RE a double drunk blind barometer litmus test!

:rofl:

I confess I'm not really on the "in" part of that inside joke, but I was either going to do this, or use the :drunk: smiley in effort to lighten the mood a bit.
Biker395 wrote:All I can say is that I view the person who founded and grew the company as a hero, and the person that bought it and tore it down as a parasite. And I say that as an avowed capitalist.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby mspamelablythe » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:54 pm

Jbaysurfer wrote:YOU'RE a double drunk blind barometer litmus test!

Say that five times fast. Wait, take 3 shots and then say it five times fast!!!!
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby Jbaysurfer » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:30 pm

mspamelablythe wrote:
Jbaysurfer wrote:YOU'RE a double drunk blind barometer litmus test!

Say that five times fast. Wait, take 3 shots and then say it five times fast!!!!


ok...i toook da shotss....what am I 'posed to say 5 times now? :drunk: :rofl:


Disclaimer: at 2:25pm on a work day, I'm taking a break, but I have not, as of yet, started doing shots.


ON TOPIC: I know this is painful, and I'm not trying to second guess anyone or complain about anything, but predicating this years' budget on last years near record breaking snow year seems like a budget doomed to fail. I'm painfully aware that business interest could've been the compulsion for using such lofty benchmarks, but if you ever show me a graph of an investment that grows that way, I'll show you what it looks like right before the bubble bursts.
Biker395 wrote:All I can say is that I view the person who founded and grew the company as a hero, and the person that bought it and tore it down as a parasite. And I say that as an avowed capitalist.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby Biker395 » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:18 pm

Jbaysurfer wrote:
mspamelablythe wrote:
Jbaysurfer wrote:YOU'RE a double drunk blind barometer litmus test!

Say that five times fast. Wait, take 3 shots and then say it five times fast!!!!


ok...i toook da shotss....what am I 'posed to say 5 times now? :drunk: :rofl:


Disclaimer: at 2:25pm on a work day, I'm taking a break, but I have not, as of yet, started doing shots.


ON TOPIC: I know this is painful, and I'm not trying to second guess anyone or complain about anything, but predicating this years' budget on last years near record breaking snow year seems like a budget doomed to fail. I'm painfully aware that business interest could've been the compulsion for using such lofty benchmarks, but if you ever show me a graph of an investment that grows that way, I'll show you what it looks like right before the bubble bursts.


You know ... I'm inclined to agree with you, but there is a complication. We're all assuming that Mammoth's profits are a direct function of snowfall, and that is not necessarily the case. As it's been explained to me, the best years for MMSA are average years, not years with a huge snowfall. Huge years can actually reduce skier visits, and snow management is VERY expensive.

So what do you plan for if you're MMSA? Average snowfall? Kinda not because that would be overly optimistic from a budgeting standpoint. Above average snowfall? Kinda not because that that's not expected. Below average snowfall? Yea, that might make sense to be conservative ... but you wouldn't plan on something like this year ... worst in many.

I dunno ... TonyC can chime in here, because I'm sure there is a relatively simple way to come up with a mean and variance for the expected value of MMSA's profits year to year. But I don't think it's directly correlated to how much snow they get. Going back to SnS's data showing the wild variation in snowfall, the best you could say is that they can expect the unexpected.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby mspamelablythe » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:49 pm

Jbaysurfer wrote:ON TOPIC: I know this is painful, and I'm not trying to second guess anyone or complain about anything, but predicating this years' budget on last years near record breaking snow year seems like a budget doomed to fail. I'm painfully aware that business interest could've been the compulsion for using such lofty benchmarks, but if you ever show me a graph of an investment that grows that way, I'll show you what it looks like right before the bubble bursts.


I had this same conversation with hubby the other day. Well, I was talking about this and he was not sleeping, so it counts as a conversation I suppose. Having just baked 8 hotel budgets, all based on how we finished 2011, I imagine their budget process is a lot like most companies - 3%-7% lift (or whatevah). The only time we budget down for a year is when there is something major, like the economy tanks or our biggest account moves production to Texas etc... How do you budget when so much of your revenue is weather related? The profit piece is even harder I would imagine, seeing as the cost of doing that same business varies on the weather as well.

OFF TOPIC: jbay - you have said like three things this week that almost made it to my signature line.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby Jbaysurfer » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:32 pm

mspamelablythe wrote:
Jbaysurfer wrote:ON TOPIC: I know this is painful, and I'm not trying to second guess anyone or complain about anything, but predicating this years' budget on last years near record breaking snow year seems like a budget doomed to fail. I'm painfully aware that business interest could've been the compulsion for using such lofty benchmarks, but if you ever show me a graph of an investment that grows that way, I'll show you what it looks like right before the bubble bursts.


I had this same conversation with hubby the other day. Well, I was talking about this and he was not sleeping, so it counts as a conversation I suppose. Having just baked 8 hotel budgets, all based on how we finished 2011, I imagine their budget process is a lot like most companies - 3%-7% lift (or whatevah). The only time we budget down for a year is when there is something major, like the economy tanks or our biggest account moves production to Texas etc... How do you budget when so much of your revenue is weather related? The profit piece is even harder I would imagine, seeing as the cost of doing that same business varies on the weather as well.

OFF TOPIC: jbay - you have said like three things this week that almost made it to my signature line.


I'm honored, but truthfully I'm skeptical I'll be able to top the sig line you've got going right now. :-)
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby gowithapro2009 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:11 am

RealityCheck wrote:
Snowave wrote:
RealityCheck wrote:
gowithapro2009 wrote:You should know that even though the prices of ski and sb lessons go up, the instructors themselves have never recieved any kind of raise commensorate with the price increase. they are on the same scale they set 10 years ago.


Your bias against the mountain and especially the ski school continues to show through in all your posts. I guess I might have an axe to grind if I got a no re hire also.

Quick lesson in grammar: it's i before e except after c; and if you are going to use big words like commensurate use spell check and get it right.




If you're going to call somebody out, that's fine... but don't be such a pussy that you go and create a new name to save your own ass.

Weak.



Pussy huh? Yeah, I've got one, and with the time to make over 7000 posts it's apparently something you never get. :rofl:
Think you just got called out.



Such a sad panda :cry:
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby skimike » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:08 pm

dang pam I couldn't buy top ramen with 3-7% but Im not fortune 500, . but my profit is based on my labor which is just a glorified paycheck.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby mspamelablythe » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:14 am

skimike wrote:dang pam I couldn't buy top ramen with 3-7% but Im not fortune 500, . but my profit is based on my labor which is just a glorified paycheck.

Glorified Paycheck would be a great name for a band...
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby SKIPUNK » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:42 am

A little bird told me today that some of the employees that were let go last week are being offered their jobs back. Although at a lower pay scale and little or no benefits. As the mountain turns.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby Sierra Lady » Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:15 pm

^ Clarification on that subject when Rusty answered questions at last week's Council meeting on Sierra Wave News:

MMSA CEO responds to questions
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby TonyC » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:55 pm

ON TOPIC: I know this is painful, and I'm not trying to second guess anyone or complain about anything, but predicating this years' budget on last years near record breaking snow year seems like a budget doomed to fail. I'm painfully aware that business interest could've been the compulsion for using such lofty benchmarks, but if you ever show me a graph of an investment that grows that way, I'll show you what it looks like right before the bubble bursts.

Which reminds me of the root cause of this situation. When did Starwood buy Mammoth from Dave McCoy? Right at the top of the real estate bubble. And they based revenue projections then on the 2004-05 and 2005-06 seasons, both of which were huge and 2004-05 had full coverage of the mountain in late October. So learning that this year's projection was based on last year has a deja vu ring to me.

Of course Starwood's top-of-the-market purchase was financed with debt. In the http://www.sierrawave.net/10665/mmsa-ceo-responds/ link, Rusty notes that there was $35 million a year in debt service. Fortunately Rusty was proactive and got that refinanced during one of the good years or else this debacle would have happened sooner or been much more severe.

I dunno ... TonyC can chime in here, because I'm sure there is a relatively simple way to come up with a mean and variance for the expected value of MMSA's profits year to year. But I don't think it's directly correlated to how much snow they get

I'm sure it's quite correlated to how much snow they get. A few years ago there was a hot debate about Taos skier visits declining because of the snowboard ban. The 10-12 years of skier visit data posted correlated 73% with Taos snowfall. I suspect a correlation to November + December snow might work even better, as we all know that Christmas is a big revenue producer plus the psychology of casual skiers writing off the whole season when there is bad publicity at the start, an issue Rusty has mentioned repeatedly this winter.

The "too much snow" for Mammoth issue is mainly about incidence. The classic comparison for Mammoth was 1981-82 vs. 1982-83. The latter season had more snow but fewer skier visits. The reason was that it snowed every weekend from Jan. 15 to May 15 in 1983, while 1981-82 got most of its snow in 3 massive storm cycles and most of the weekends had nice weather. But both of those were fine seasons with full operation by Thanksgiving and closings in July.

With regard to means and variances we have that info for snowfall and perhaps someone can provide that for skier visits. I believe skier visits at a weekend drive up resort like Mammoth (SoCal is still 90% of Mammoth's clientele) will be more sensitive to snowfall numbers than at destination resorts where people have shelled out for airfare and lodging 6 months ahead and are reluctant to pay cancellation penalties. I was telling destination visitors on other Forums to pull the plug on scheduled trips to the Sierra or Front Range Colorado in January or go instead to Canada which had plenty of snow. Only one person (with whom I had skied personally here at Mammoth on spring break 2006) heeded that advice.

Sierra snowfall is historically volatile. We had a run of several crappy seasons in the late 1980's and early 1990's. Dave McCoy had taken on debt to buy and upgrade June Mt. in 1986, precisely before that run of bad seasons. 1991 was the straw that broke the camel's back and resulted in the Black Monday layoffs. So I'm not that sympathetic to Mammoth's current financial position being that vulnerable to ONE bad snow year. It was entirely predictable that this would happen sometime, and while Rusty did get that debt service reduced, there are some businesses that are inherently volatile and should not be highly leveraged.
Last edited by TonyC on Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MMSA CEO cuts pay and expenses as skier visits drop

Postby TonyC » Thu Apr 12, 2012 11:12 pm

The Kottke Report summarizes skier visits by region.
For 13 years Northeast skier visits are 53% correlated to snowfall.
For 13 years Rockies skier visits are 60% correlated to snowfall.
For 11 years California skier visits are 61% correlated to snowfall.
For 11 years Pacific Northwest skier visits are 82% correlated to snowfall.

Washington/Oregon ski areas have a higher proportion of local vs. destination visitors. Locals can more easily time their trips for when there is more snow.
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